Comments on the Home Game
I have been busy with school and work as of late. As a result, not much poker has been played. I did, however, play my home game tonight. And I also played about 200 hands of 5-Draw today.
In the home game, I got 3rd. Very disappointing. I was playing well and had the chip lead until the following pot came up when we were 3-handed:
Blinds are 1K/2K/200. With about 65K in chips, I raise to 6K UTG (button) with A6o. SB calls. Flop comes Q62 rainbow. SB bets 7K, I call. Turn comes another Q. SB checks, I bet 10K, SB moves in for another 10K. I have played against the SB many time (he is my twin brother) and I have a pretty good line on his play. I think his play looks like {66-TT, 67, 68, A6, K6, KQ, JQ, TQ, 9Q}. I'm actually crushed against this range as about a 4:1 dog.
But my pot odds are much better than than that. The only way I can fold is if I were somehow unable to put any weaker 6's in his hand. He mixes it up too much to limit his range this way, so I'm stuck calling. He has 88, I miss my 5 outs, and I double him up.
I then wait around for a while, picking up horrible hands any time the blinds don't fold to me. Then with blinds at 1200/2400/225, my brother raises to 5K from the button, trying to make it look like it's something other than a cowardly min-raise. I pick up A9o, move in for about 14.2K more, get called by A5o, then lose to a final board of 23824. I was a little irritated at his call because I had been waiting fairly patiently to pick up a hand, then got called by A5o when he was only getting about 1.86:1 for the call. I promised him I would determine for him whether it was a good call or not. Let's look at it.
I'll put my range at {A8o+, A5s+, 44+, KJ+}. You could argue that it's a little tighter or a little looser, but that's about right. I ran this through pokerstove, and his equity is 34.96% against this range. In order to make this call correct, he needs at least 1/2.86 = 35.71% equity in the pot. Actually, it's not quite so bad considering he only loses about 375 chips on average against my range. I guess he likes to gamble :)
Also, I was trying to explain to a couple of players in the game (hey, they're my friends) why you should almost always raise or re-raise with AA, KK before the flop. They were both complaining about super-pairs due to the following hands:
Blinds at 300/600/50, 6-handed. UTG limps, CO limps, I limp in the SB with 4h6h, BB checks. Flop comes 5hThQc. All check. Turn is the 3d. I check my super-draw, BB bets 2500, UTG calls, CO folds. I tank, trying to figure out whether I should put in a big raise or just call. I settle on calling because I think UTG will probaby call me anyway. Turn is the 2c, giving me the nuts. I bet 8K, BB folds, UTG calls with AA.
On the very next hand, CO raises to 2500, then the BB (the guy who just had AA and has NEVER raised a pot preflop the two times I've played with him) re-raises to 8K. Now, the CO should pretty easily fold anything but AA and KK here. But he "went with his gut", and moved in for about 15K more. BB calls with KK, CO has AdTd, the flop has an A, and the KK is cracked.
Obviously, this guy just got really unlucky in the KK hand, but he totally fucked up with the AA. I should never have even gotten near the flop or turn with the 46s. Besides that, he really needs to turn the heat up on the flop if somehow 3 other people actually see the flop. He does neither and pays a heavy price.
Blinds at 400/800/75, 5-handed. UTG raises to 3500. Button (my brother) calls, BB hems, haws, gets raising chips out, but finally flat calls. I immediately put him on the range {AA,KK}. Flop comes 468 rainbow. BB checks, UTG checks, button checks. Turn 7. BB makes a decent-sized bet, UTG folds, button moves all-in (and has BB covered). BB thinks for a while then calls with KK and is drawing dead against the button's 55.
These guys complain that they can't get a big pair to hold up, but they always slow-play them!!! This is basically the opposite of the way you actually want to play. Instead of flat-calling preflop with all your hands in order to mix it up, you should raise with tons of hands to mix it up instead. These people really don't understand how far some aggression can get you in NLH.
One thing I will never understand is why people think that 1 pair is a good slow-playing hand in a 7 card game. It's not that strong. And if you play AA and KK the right way (i.e., fast preflop and on the flop) in NLH, you can usually have a pretty good idea of whether you're beat or not by the turn and can have a much easier time getting away from it. Because let's face it, if somebody's still with you on the turn and you've been playing a hand fast, the ONLY things you can actually beat are top pair with a good kicker or a decent draw.
STOP SLOW-PLAYING BIG PAIRS POSTFLOP, PEOPLE!!!
One other funnny thing happened to me in the 5-Draw game tonight also. It was 4-handed, UTG raises, I 3-bet from the button with KKJJA, blinds fold, then the raiser folds getting 6.5:1. Can somebody explain this to me please? I mean even if I show him two big pair, isn't he getting the right price to draw even to something like shorts (a small pair) with no kicker? Some people just decide to totally buck logic in this game, which I guess is why its fun to play.
Oh yes -- congrats on the win tonight, brother. Savor the flavor...
In the home game, I got 3rd. Very disappointing. I was playing well and had the chip lead until the following pot came up when we were 3-handed:
Blinds are 1K/2K/200. With about 65K in chips, I raise to 6K UTG (button) with A6o. SB calls. Flop comes Q62 rainbow. SB bets 7K, I call. Turn comes another Q. SB checks, I bet 10K, SB moves in for another 10K. I have played against the SB many time (he is my twin brother) and I have a pretty good line on his play. I think his play looks like {66-TT, 67, 68, A6, K6, KQ, JQ, TQ, 9Q}. I'm actually crushed against this range as about a 4:1 dog.
But my pot odds are much better than than that. The only way I can fold is if I were somehow unable to put any weaker 6's in his hand. He mixes it up too much to limit his range this way, so I'm stuck calling. He has 88, I miss my 5 outs, and I double him up.
I then wait around for a while, picking up horrible hands any time the blinds don't fold to me. Then with blinds at 1200/2400/225, my brother raises to 5K from the button, trying to make it look like it's something other than a cowardly min-raise. I pick up A9o, move in for about 14.2K more, get called by A5o, then lose to a final board of 23824. I was a little irritated at his call because I had been waiting fairly patiently to pick up a hand, then got called by A5o when he was only getting about 1.86:1 for the call. I promised him I would determine for him whether it was a good call or not. Let's look at it.
I'll put my range at {A8o+, A5s+, 44+, KJ+}. You could argue that it's a little tighter or a little looser, but that's about right. I ran this through pokerstove, and his equity is 34.96% against this range. In order to make this call correct, he needs at least 1/2.86 = 35.71% equity in the pot. Actually, it's not quite so bad considering he only loses about 375 chips on average against my range. I guess he likes to gamble :)
Also, I was trying to explain to a couple of players in the game (hey, they're my friends) why you should almost always raise or re-raise with AA, KK before the flop. They were both complaining about super-pairs due to the following hands:
Blinds at 300/600/50, 6-handed. UTG limps, CO limps, I limp in the SB with 4h6h, BB checks. Flop comes 5hThQc. All check. Turn is the 3d. I check my super-draw, BB bets 2500, UTG calls, CO folds. I tank, trying to figure out whether I should put in a big raise or just call. I settle on calling because I think UTG will probaby call me anyway. Turn is the 2c, giving me the nuts. I bet 8K, BB folds, UTG calls with AA.
On the very next hand, CO raises to 2500, then the BB (the guy who just had AA and has NEVER raised a pot preflop the two times I've played with him) re-raises to 8K. Now, the CO should pretty easily fold anything but AA and KK here. But he "went with his gut", and moved in for about 15K more. BB calls with KK, CO has AdTd, the flop has an A, and the KK is cracked.
Obviously, this guy just got really unlucky in the KK hand, but he totally fucked up with the AA. I should never have even gotten near the flop or turn with the 46s. Besides that, he really needs to turn the heat up on the flop if somehow 3 other people actually see the flop. He does neither and pays a heavy price.
Blinds at 400/800/75, 5-handed. UTG raises to 3500. Button (my brother) calls, BB hems, haws, gets raising chips out, but finally flat calls. I immediately put him on the range {AA,KK}. Flop comes 468 rainbow. BB checks, UTG checks, button checks. Turn 7. BB makes a decent-sized bet, UTG folds, button moves all-in (and has BB covered). BB thinks for a while then calls with KK and is drawing dead against the button's 55.
These guys complain that they can't get a big pair to hold up, but they always slow-play them!!! This is basically the opposite of the way you actually want to play. Instead of flat-calling preflop with all your hands in order to mix it up, you should raise with tons of hands to mix it up instead. These people really don't understand how far some aggression can get you in NLH.
One thing I will never understand is why people think that 1 pair is a good slow-playing hand in a 7 card game. It's not that strong. And if you play AA and KK the right way (i.e., fast preflop and on the flop) in NLH, you can usually have a pretty good idea of whether you're beat or not by the turn and can have a much easier time getting away from it. Because let's face it, if somebody's still with you on the turn and you've been playing a hand fast, the ONLY things you can actually beat are top pair with a good kicker or a decent draw.
STOP SLOW-PLAYING BIG PAIRS POSTFLOP, PEOPLE!!!
One other funnny thing happened to me in the 5-Draw game tonight also. It was 4-handed, UTG raises, I 3-bet from the button with KKJJA, blinds fold, then the raiser folds getting 6.5:1. Can somebody explain this to me please? I mean even if I show him two big pair, isn't he getting the right price to draw even to something like shorts (a small pair) with no kicker? Some people just decide to totally buck logic in this game, which I guess is why its fun to play.
Oh yes -- congrats on the win tonight, brother. Savor the flavor...
posted by the_real_zano at 12:06 AM
5 Comments:
You forgot to say that I had AA three times that night and didn't lose any of them....
That is correct. Clark, who got 2nd this week and beat me heads up to win 1st last week, picked up AA 3 times last night and never lost with them.
Of course, I also think he open-raised with them preflop every time and everyone folded. Kind of a shame, but it's certainly better than getting broke with them due to a slow-play.
Seriously though, if you're reading this again Clark -- be ashamed that you got AA 3 times last night, never got them cracked, and still didn't win the tournament.
So my call with A5o wasn't that bad. I feel some what better.
You also forgot to mention how Jordan knew I didn't have a 5 when he called with KK to go broke.
The call still wasn't very good, despite being have an EV of "only" -375. The fact is, most of my hands have you soundly beaten (as either a 2.5:1 favorite or a 3:1 favorite), and the few hands you're ahead of are only by a small margin (3:2).
The result of this is that I double up about 2/3 of the time; And I double up to having about 1/3 of the chips in play and am no longer a short stack. If you fold, I still have just over 10BBs. Meaning that I am still basically just as crippled as I was before.
I'm going to write a(nother) post about this when I get home from work today. Besides just chip EV, you have to think about payout structure as well. My guess is that you "gave" me something in the ballpark of $5 in tournament equity by calling there, which is tantamount to reaching in you pocket and giving me a $5 bill. More on this later.
And yes, Jordan's monologue was pretty funny just before he called -- "I know you don't have a 5... or two 5's. I call." I guess he just didn't want to believe.
The only reason I didn't win was because I didn't have my chicken tenders...
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